RS2--daniel

How I use some terms:

self = Our individual, seperate sense of self. Some call it ego, others use a name like Joe, Paul or Marc and attach a story "I'm 38 years old, grew up in..."
Self = Our Higher Self, Soul, Groupsoul ect - it's all being represented by this one term for the sake of simplicity.
SELF = Our True Nature, infinite consciousness, there is only One and we are all part of it. Call it All-That-Is, the Great Spirit or God if you like.

----------------------------


Some basics I take as a given:

All-That-Is = Infinite consciousness which always was and always will be. There is nothing outside of it, it contains all, permeates all, is the essence of every single thing in existance no matter what reality, dimension or timeline.

As everything happens in the One consiousness, every form of limitation is something that was agreed upon on a "higher" level.

From the ultimate perspective we are playing a "game", as there would be nothing to experience otherwise.


----------------------------


The problem I had so far with contemplating infinity was that everything one can think of has to exist. Every possible choice of every possible situation has to exist in one way or another - otherwise we could not speak of inifinty. The implications of something being infinite are so far reaching it's truly mind boggling, maybe incomprehensible - but let me give it a try, at least concerning a few characteristics.

In the past I tried to start with the premise that there are an infinite number of timelines, with an infinite number of realities, where an infinite number of choices (every possible way) are being realised. This brings up a couple of problems, in particular for our individual self.

#S1#

If there is an infinite number of my selfs, all thinking they inhabit the "true reality" or being on the timeline that is actualised, while every other (of my selfs) is just in a probale timeline not as real as mine the issues that come up are too many for me to continue the contemplation in any meaningful way.
Let's say I sit here, typing this with one self, thinking this is the timeline "I" am on. At the same time there's a parallel timeline (everything that happens has to happen NOW, as there is only the infinite NOW since linear time is an illusion. Calling it another point/path in 3D time does just as well.) where I did not start writing, but rather went to get something to eat. So far, so simple... but everything in between must have happened as well. Another version where I started writing one word and then got myself something to eat. The next version where I wrote two words and THEN got myself something to eat. The next version with three words ect ect towards infinity, but this would "just" be the beginning. In every single version the moment I got up from the chair there would be a new inifinity of possibilities that came up - I could have tripped, bumped my head on everything starting from table, chair, door - and in an infinite number of realities when they all happen NOW - I would INDEED have done all this. In one timeline I would have hit my head on the door, in another on the chair and in again another on the table. (That makes for quiet a headache!) Every single moment a new infinity of possibilities springs up, my self always thinking it's the only one - whereas there's an infinity of me's - having everything from two arms and two legs to eigth tentacles and three heads. You can see how one doesn't get far in this line of tought, unless one maybe tries to write a comedy.

On a more serious note some other implications of the "everything is realised for every single, individual self"-scenario. These would be, for example, that there would be absolute no free will at all. Sure you can think you chose something, but at the same time there's a version branching off who did not choose it, chose the opposite ect. Therefor one could argue YOU, the self that is identified with THIS version here where it reads a contemplation on infinity, are doing this because every other possible timeline is already occupied by another (of your) selfs - some maybe just hitting on the hottest girl in town. Yes, I can feel your pain asking right now "Why am *I* sitting here, and not doing THAT instead?!" ... and this is basically the question I'm trying to get answered, maybe we can work together here? I'll hear your input after we are through these mind-bending ideas in a moment!

Instead of bringing up more problems with this scenario, I'll get to the next one and make proposals what would fit better in there. Offering ideas that work is much nicer than pointing at those that don't, wouldn't you agree?

#S2#

Next scenario: We've still got infinity, but its not concerning individual selfs anylonger. Rather every possible version is being played out through our Selfs. This would translate to that it's enough if someone belonging to our "Soulgroup" goes through an experience... which of course would still be mind boggling, but at least then three different selfs (belonging to the Soulgroup) who could bump their head on either the chair, table or door instead of going through all these experiences each in different timelines. I'd say this works better, but is still not viable for "getting anywhere".

#S3#

Door number 3: Only our SELF truly experiences every single possible version, meaning it's split between the inifinty of the ONE consciousness. Therefore we, the seemingly separate selfs, can have pretty linear experiences without alternatives branching off into infinity every single moment, while still being part of the learning experience in as far as we are able to transcend our individual borders (ascend towards higher consciousness) and incorporate "other selfs" into our awareness, since whatever we perceive as separation is illusory.

What does that mean now - in practical terms?

When an extraterrestrial tells us they are "us" from the future they try to bridge a gap between their understanding and ours, while using a language we comprehend. As there is no future, only simultanous time, my self wont turn into a Grey in a couple of thousands years. My Self on the other hand might indeed have an incarnation as a Grey - right NOW. Our SELF of course is the Greys, the Arcturians, us - everything combined: All-That-Is ... infinite consciousness. So every truth depends on the perspective as we all know, but this is rarely being considered when trying to make a point or gain insight into a specific layer and instead the arguments jump between different layers of subjective truth - especially when there are egos involved trying to be "more right" than the other. Let's cooperate here, please - this will benefit everyone. So while it is all good and well to fall back to higher and more abstract truths, it doesn't deepen the understanding of one certain layer which we are still involved in - otherwise I wouldn't be writing this here and you wouldn't be reading it either.

When an extradimensional tells us we are part of them that's pretty easy to comprehend for me personally, because as I understand the person I was a couple of years back still being part of me - I grew to incorporate more lessons, more awareness, more consciousness (hopefully) in between - so the old me is still here in a way, but greatly expanded. Like that the extradimensionals would be what we turn into, given enough lessons in the NOW, or "time" for our selfs understanding. One could think of the branches of a tree, where our selfs are at the very end only aware of one limb, while our Self is closer to the trunk and has a couple of branches, whereas the whole tree then would be our SELF - conscious of every single part. The "higher" more abstract truth would of course be, as no channel seems to grow tired of repeating, that we are already "them" - with the background that there is only ONE SELF (tree!) and we are all *it*.

I'm confident that everyone can come up with their own version how it works out that they are us, we are them, how the past or future is involved ect when we take as the basis that it's just one consciousness here being present in the eternal NOW. This tough, as interesting as it is, is not the question I am aiming at but rather a sidebranch. Furthermore, as I just read daniels paper on the timelines again and as great as it is in sheding light into the relationship between space/time and time/space (thank you for that!) it's all still *here* and it's all still *now*, like a book which we can hold in our hands and open at any page. Maybe our self right now is not able to move through 3D time freely yet, but this is just a temporary thing until we remember more of who we are, expand our consciousness and choose to ascend towards more unity/oneness.

----------------------------

The field is set - now to the main questions: How do timelines affect our self and Self in practical terms? (and) How does one incorporate infinity into the result?


There's of course plenty more I'd be interested in, but I thought I just put these two out for now. Feel free to add your own. For the moment I'd really like to know whether anyone might be interested in this topic as well - not to argue a standpoint, but rather present what they come up with intuitively, reflect back on certain aspects or just exchange ideas in general.

While I take things seriously in a way, life should be fun - and the same holds true for a conversation.

Whatever you can come up with - even if its not related - please go ahead, the stage is yours.

The easiest way to think of these questions is this: the SELF is previous to all creation. Then, for whatever reason the SELF decides to engage in the creation. It does this by becoming the first self-aware entity, the creator or god. It loses none of its "selfhood" by doing this, but does project out a strange ignorance called maya. Everything, all time, dimensions and matter are intricate parts of this maya. The purpose for all of this is to create seemingly OTHER self-aware beings who can enjoin in this creation. Of course, none of this could occur if these others knew up front they lived in a maya that is neither real nor unreal. So, instead they assume the ignorance the maya reinforces. There is no telling how long these others will be lost in ignorance of their true BEING, which of course is the same BEING as their creator. Although they eventually apply all kinds of added illusion to the creation like parallel realities and other dimensions, they do this because they are still ignorant that ALL CREATION IS MAYA: God's, theirs, the angels, the ascended masters and any other entity imaginable.

The true, the one and only SELF has never been a moment away from them, but all their noisy mind creations have kept them distracted from the simple, peaceful, ever-present, non-dual and ordinary AWARENESS or CONSCIOUSNESS, the very same SELF that is previous to anything imaginable, and that IS WHO WE ARE.

Realized wrote:The easiest way to think of these questions is this: the SELF is previous to all creation. Then, for whatever reason the SELF decides to engage in the creation. It does this by becoming the first self-aware entity, the creator or god. It loses none of its "selfhood" by doing this, but does project out a strange ignorance called maya. Everything, all time, dimensions and matter are intricate parts of this maya. The purpose for all of this is to create seemingly OTHER self-aware beings who can enjoin in this creation. Of course, none of this could occur if these others knew up front they lived in a maya that is neither real nor unreal. So, instead they assume the ignorance the maya reinforces. There is no telling how long these others will be lost in ignorance of their true BEING, which of course is the same BEING as their creator. Although they eventually apply all kinds of added illusion to the creation like parallel realities and other dimensions, they do this because they are still ignorant that ALL CREATION IS MAYA: God's, theirs, the angels, the ascended masters and any other entity imaginable.

The true, the one and only SELF has never been a moment away from them, but all their noisy mind creations have kept them distracted from the simple, peaceful, ever-present, non-dual and ordinary AWARENESS or CONSCIOUSNESS, the very same SELF that is previous to anything imaginable, and that IS WHO WE ARE.

Thank you for this very helpful contribution, Realized. It certainly sums up the essence of many wisdom traditions and I am in total agreement. These ideas are great to have as abstract truth, let's call it ultimate truth, in the back of one's head. However, as much as I enjoy reading Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and Sri Ramana Maharshi which both do a fabulous job in explaining every nuance of the situation you are pointing at and offer guidance for attaining this state, they are not very helpful when it comes to the left brain side of things - the mechanics inside the illusion.

One might argue that the illusion we are in doesn't matter, as we only have to leave it and be done with every problem. This is true, on a certain level. On the other hand tough, we've also decided to immerse ourselves in the illusion for a certain reason - I like to call it "playing". This is why we are still here. This, so goes my theory, is also the reason I'm trying to wrap my head around the implications of infinity, something that is basically beyond our mind's ability to comprehend.

When children play on the beach and decide to build the biggest castle, one big enough to live in, we can do two things: Tell them that it won't work or join the fun

Sure, self-knowledge is not for everybody. Some, as you say, still want to play in the maya, and as an apparent creator they certainly have the right. It's a funny thing, but from the jiva's (the apparent person) point of view there is nothing more valuable than their free will. It is with this will they create and play. But from the SELF's point of view there is no free will because it is not a doer. It has nothing to do and never has because it is pure BEING and BLISS. This is something that sounds completely boring to a jiva with its busy little mind cranking away.

Once, many, many years ago I fell into the infinite by accident. It was a most blissful and beautiful experience. Instantly recognizable, I knew that the infinite was the truth and that the world of time I fell out of was the illusion.

We find that higher knowledge is often times more of a stripping away of complexities and a return to simplicity.

I consider myself lucky to have you here offering these pearls of wisdom and agree with what you're saying in general. The funny thing is, at least from my perspective, that I can imagine myself giving your kind of answers to someone asking my kind of questions, especially in a thread that started as convoluted as this one. I'd say this is a good thing because I can also see that you are trying to do me a favor and it's much appreciated.

However, as I do not know whether you see any legitimacy in me asking these questions I have to first wait now for your response concerning this.

truthfully, I did not read your original post all the way through. it attracted me by the title, contemplating infinity. ok, so we look at the infinite from opposite positions: for you it is an opportunity to split off into multiple selves on parellel timelines, while for me the attraction is the simple BLISS and TRUTH, either way we both know time is an illusion as is death, and all that exists is the INFINITE.

I can see you have a hungry mind, so feed it. With some practice you can do all sorts of things like remote viewing, OOBE, lucid dreaming. enjoy yourself.

So, if the individual stuck in maya realizes its infinite SELF, then that viewpoint into the matrix is not immersed in the illusion. But, until that viewpoint ceases (death), it is paradoxically immersed in infinite bliss and observing a body/mind complex live out its game.

It is a bit annoying that those who reach this state seem to refuse to explain too much about how the game works. Some seem to not know too many answers also. Are these the people that want to experience the beauty and could care less about the underlying design?

Or perhaps this waking up from maya is just one step and then we blissfully explore the infinite maya learning about its capabilities forever. The magicians, sorcerers, shamans, witches i must thank for being more useful in explaining perception and maneuvering thru infinity.

So, what is so wonderful about this formless, undescribable, unknowable anyway? I yearn for it as well, so i feel it must be pretty sweet. But what is this experience without being in relation with maya. I havent come across anyone clearly explain this. I have seen the illusion fold into 2D, and some other bizarre stuff. Although it showed me other views of the matrix, It wouldn't really be awesome to continually perceive the world that way.

Is it the bliss of non-perception? It seems to me the true bliss and beauty is being the living paradox. The paradox is the source of all this amazing beauty and terrible pain/frustration. To me, it seems to be about exploring with one foot inside maya, while being fully aware of the infinite beyond the monitor of the matrix.

For me , it goes back to the hologram. Given its a bunch of infinitely possible combinations of pixel patterns, infinity is pure white/light. White is includes all colors. So, infinity is all potentially within that brightness. But does the hologram actually project every possible variation of your life kinetically, instead of in potential? I feel your pain brother. lol I've banged my head off this plenty of times.

I feel thats not practical. If that was the case it would conclude that all your possible lives would be the same thing as all possible holographic projections possible. I think thats what infinity is exploring but it hasnt or couldnt exhaust that in actual time based projections.

I then go back to the fractal nature of holograms. I think of these timelines as zooming thru different strands of the fractal......aka the tree of life. Since there are patterns going thru the fractal.....99.99999999999999999999% of those inifinite possibilities are not close to us when going down the fractal river. You see what i mean? Since its all connected in this way, our journey thru time is jounrey thru the fractal which will bring possibilities very similar to the present one. At least, when we are existing in one smooth reality. I guess switching to another frequency like the dream state, can bring in a lot more variation.

I dont know, i hope some of that helps or makes sense. lol

There are 2 types of maya. The first is the illusion of the world and all creation. That remains. Nothing changes visually or dimensionally or otherwise. The second is the personal maya or avidya. That is lifted with self-knowledge. The myth of the person: that one even exists is seen through. This supposed person is seen as a hard-wired thought, wrapped in feelings and secured with identity. It was foisted upon the infant by its parents and reinforced throughout its life (not that it could have been any way else) until all the other "people" see this as an undisputable fact. But then the mind begins to quiet with inquiry until one day the seeker is able to see for himself that he is indeed an awareness that is independent of the body, feelings, thoughts or world. The bliss is mild and comes as a result of the profound peace this realization produces.

What I was describing in the begining of this thread was an estimation of the Pure Self. The reality of this is never available to us in this order of reality. But we do get know the Self when we turn our mind towards it and begin to take our cues from this simple awareness instead of the ego.

I read all kinds of experiential expectations in your responses, and I must tell you, although you might have all kinds of experiences, this is NOT what it is all about. One realizes the Self through knowledge, not through any kind of experience. The best thing you can do with any of these experiences is to bring them always back to inquiry: how is this experience known? what never changes in any experience? and you find the answer is always YOU. That is why it is not a state either. You are always experencing the Self, but for now you are under the influence of an ignorance that seems to be obfuscating this appreciation.